Very interesting Chris, and very muc in line with my own life experience, the oscillation between we are totally screwed, to we really can fix this.. if only we put our minds to it. I think the Western world is now collapsing, imperialism is not sustainable, and that sudden and unexpected change may even come about sooner than we thought. Meanwhile, what else can we do but tend our gardens and send some love out into the world.
Thanks Steve. Yes, gardens and groups. One thing I have been concerned about is if I am holding to that honest, “I don’t know what the future will bring” attitude and maintaining a dynamic tension between “totally screwed” and “we really can fix this”, does this require any change to what we teach or how we teach? Or is it a topic in itself to teach/talk about?
Yes also to the unexpected coming maybe sooner than later. The consequences of Global Warming certainly seem to be piling in much more rapidly than many folk thought, including David Holmgren.
Well it is certainly changing things for me, in how i see permaculture and the 'we really can fix this perspective'. Yes things are worse than we thought, more entrenched and now the world has shifted its attention to a global competition rather than solidarity, more dangerous. Sir David Kings articulates bio-engineering responses that could work, to fix climate, but it is scary to think like this and of course, where is the global consensus to drive these ideas forward?
“Where is the global consensus to drive these ideas forward?” Indeed, it’s difficult to see where any sort of global consensus might form at the moment. Also scary that financially, some of the geoengineering suggestions (releasing reflective rubbish into the upper atmosphere or dumping thousands of tons of iron filings into the oceans, for eg.) is well within the reach of the super rich who might get more messianic about saving the world and just do it, without any consensus or safeguards.
If you ask an anthropologist they'll tell you that every generation that ever lived thought they would be the last. This time, however, it just might be true. It's very difficult to see a soft landing here and the social tipping points will become critical before the climate ones do. Food inflation and climate-related migration are already happening and will accelerate over the coming decades whatever we do. These are the factors that fuel populist and far-right movements, isolationism and conflict. This will prevent us from dealing with the consequences of climate change rationally and indeed accelerate them. I don't think the entire race will die out but if you put the graph of human population increase next to a mirror - that might be the optimistic outcome. As to how we deal with this on a personal and societal level I have no idea.
Thanks for that Andrew. You make very valid points, particularly regarding the distractions from dealing with the reality of global warming and its consequences. I have a feeling that the social tipping points and the climate tipping points will roll in at different rates at different times for different landscapes and populations but the accumulations and varieties of different disasters will become more and more difficult and expensive to deal with and countries will find it harder and harder to repair or mitigate the accumulating damage, particularly if they are also fighting or supporting a war...
With regard to how we deal with this at a societal level, as long as we keep getting governments made up of people who think continuous economic growth can get us out of this mess, we're sort of stuffed. We need to design for static or shrinking economies which is not going to be easy, particularly with ageing populations, as in the UK, however, there is now a lot more thought being given to this.
On a personal level, I seem to wake up in the morning feeling mostly OK and have ahead of me a day to deal with. Continuing to work towards lessening my own impact and building local resilience still seem valid actions. And, of course, enjoying whatever I can.
Very interesting Chris, and very muc in line with my own life experience, the oscillation between we are totally screwed, to we really can fix this.. if only we put our minds to it. I think the Western world is now collapsing, imperialism is not sustainable, and that sudden and unexpected change may even come about sooner than we thought. Meanwhile, what else can we do but tend our gardens and send some love out into the world.
Thanks Steve. Yes, gardens and groups. One thing I have been concerned about is if I am holding to that honest, “I don’t know what the future will bring” attitude and maintaining a dynamic tension between “totally screwed” and “we really can fix this”, does this require any change to what we teach or how we teach? Or is it a topic in itself to teach/talk about?
Yes also to the unexpected coming maybe sooner than later. The consequences of Global Warming certainly seem to be piling in much more rapidly than many folk thought, including David Holmgren.
Well it is certainly changing things for me, in how i see permaculture and the 'we really can fix this perspective'. Yes things are worse than we thought, more entrenched and now the world has shifted its attention to a global competition rather than solidarity, more dangerous. Sir David Kings articulates bio-engineering responses that could work, to fix climate, but it is scary to think like this and of course, where is the global consensus to drive these ideas forward?
“Where is the global consensus to drive these ideas forward?” Indeed, it’s difficult to see where any sort of global consensus might form at the moment. Also scary that financially, some of the geoengineering suggestions (releasing reflective rubbish into the upper atmosphere or dumping thousands of tons of iron filings into the oceans, for eg.) is well within the reach of the super rich who might get more messianic about saving the world and just do it, without any consensus or safeguards.
If you ask an anthropologist they'll tell you that every generation that ever lived thought they would be the last. This time, however, it just might be true. It's very difficult to see a soft landing here and the social tipping points will become critical before the climate ones do. Food inflation and climate-related migration are already happening and will accelerate over the coming decades whatever we do. These are the factors that fuel populist and far-right movements, isolationism and conflict. This will prevent us from dealing with the consequences of climate change rationally and indeed accelerate them. I don't think the entire race will die out but if you put the graph of human population increase next to a mirror - that might be the optimistic outcome. As to how we deal with this on a personal and societal level I have no idea.
Thanks for that Andrew. You make very valid points, particularly regarding the distractions from dealing with the reality of global warming and its consequences. I have a feeling that the social tipping points and the climate tipping points will roll in at different rates at different times for different landscapes and populations but the accumulations and varieties of different disasters will become more and more difficult and expensive to deal with and countries will find it harder and harder to repair or mitigate the accumulating damage, particularly if they are also fighting or supporting a war...
With regard to how we deal with this at a societal level, as long as we keep getting governments made up of people who think continuous economic growth can get us out of this mess, we're sort of stuffed. We need to design for static or shrinking economies which is not going to be easy, particularly with ageing populations, as in the UK, however, there is now a lot more thought being given to this.
On a personal level, I seem to wake up in the morning feeling mostly OK and have ahead of me a day to deal with. Continuing to work towards lessening my own impact and building local resilience still seem valid actions. And, of course, enjoying whatever I can.